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How to Use Your Own Router for Verizon Fios

by on March 25, 2020
in Tips & How-Tos, Computers and Software, Internet & Networking, Computer Safety & Support :: 241 comments

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For years, my family had a bundled package with Verizon Fios that included cable, VOIP and internet. But as my family’s watching habits turned to streaming, it was rare when we turned on the cable box. At the same time, Verizon’s costs have continued to escalate, including the ridiculous fees they tacked on to our already high bill. So, we made the decision it was time to cut the cord and move to an internet-only plan (we have been very happy with Verizon’s internet service). However, when I called Verizon to move to internet-only, I found that those plans would now include a new fee – a $12 a month router rental charge. That’s an outrageous amount to “rent” a router, especially one I’ve already had for years.

Could I use my own router? The Verizon cancellation department representative sounded surprised when I asked her and told me that if I used my own router, they wouldn’t be able to offer support if something went wrong. Given that I’ve never needed support for a router – ever – that was a risk I was willing to take. Also, using my own router would enable me to upgrade to a newer mesh wireless system in my home for far less than it would have cost me with Verizon equipment, so my kids’ bedrooms would finally get a WiFi signal.

Not surprisingly, instructions from Verizon on how to use your own router weren’t available on its main support site. A quick search on Google, though, turned up helpful advice from Verizon’s community forums and other sites confirming that using your own router with Verizon Fios is both possible and easy to do. Some of the steps are somewhat “technical,” but you don’t need to be a techie to follow them. Note: using your own router is only feasible for people who only use Fios for internet service. If you still have TV or VOIP service with Fios, replacing the Verizon router is a more complex process, and you may lose some features of your TV and VOIP.

Step 1 – Buy a new router to replace your existing Fios router

If you already have an old router sitting around, you can use it, but this may be a good time to upgrade for faster WiFi speed and better security. Ideally, you will want a router that offers gigabit WiFi speeds (though 100 Mbps should be fine for most people), and WPA2 encryption is a must – DO NOT use an old router that only offers WEP encryption.

When buying a new router, any current router from a major manufacturer should be fine. The TP-Link Archer A10 would be a solid choice (around $120 on Amazon). And our friends at Tom’s Guide recommend the TP-Link Archer A7 (around $65 on Amazon) if you’re looking for a cheaper option.

There’s no shortage of WiFi mesh systems, either. I set my network up using Eero Pro with two mesh “beacons,” which I had been provided for testing. It works great, but is pricey (retails for $399) and is overkill for apartments or smaller homes. Eero has less expensive choices (starting at under $100 on Amazon), or you could go with a system from Nest WiFi (starting under $200 on Amazon). Each of these also has the advantage of being relatively attractive, as far as WiFi equipment goes. There’s also the option to go with a WiFi range extender, which offers fewer features than a mesh system but comes in at a lower cost.

You will also need an Ethernet cable to connect your new router to the Verizon ONT (Optical Network Terminal) in your house. Get an inexpensive one on Amazon or your local Best Buy. You will need a length appropriate to reach from your ONT box to your router.

Connections on the back of Verizon Fios router

If your ONT is already connected to your router using Ethernet, you’ll just use the existing cable and proceed to Step 4.

Step 2 – Connect your existing Fios router to your ONT via Ethernet

Skip this step if your ONT is already connected to your router using Ethernet.

In a later step, we’re going to switch the internet output on your ONT from coax to Ethernet. To prepare for that, connect an Ethernet cable from the Ethernet output on your ONT to the WAN port on your Verizon router. The ONT box will look like one of these:

Verizon Fios ONT boxes

Verizon Fios ONT boxes from the left: Arris 100 GI4, Nokia 211, Tellabs 612

Leave the coax cable plugged in, for now, so you still have internet on your router.

Step 3 – Call Verizon technical support to switch your ONT from coax to Ethernet

Skip this step if your ONT is already connected to your router using Ethernet.

Call Verizon’s support number 1-800-VERIZON (1-800-837-4966) and follow the prompts to get to internet technical support. Once you get a real person on the line, let them know that you want to switch your ONT from coax to Ethernet so you can use your own router. When I called, the agent knew exactly what I needed and completed the request quickly (it will take a few minutes for the switch to go through). Your router should automatically pick up the Ethernet signal. While you have the agent on the line, verify this by unscrewing the coax cable from the router and make sure you still have internet access by opening a website on a laptop or phone (in airplane mode) connected to your WiFi network.

Step 4 – Release the IP address on your Fios router

Releasing your IP address from your existing Fios router allows the ONT box to assign the correct IP address to your new router when you plug it in. According to the Fios technical support rep, this should happen automatically after a short period of time, but you might as well do it manually just to make sure. To manually release your IP address, follow these steps:

  1. Log into your router settings either by typing https://192.168.1.1 or by going to myfiosgateway.com (method depends on what type of router you have) and entering your password. This information will be in the sticker attached to your router.
  2. Click on My Network at the top of the page, then Network Connections from the left menu.
  3. Click where it says Broadband Connection (Ethernet/Coax)
  4. On the Broadband Connections Properties page, click Settings at the bottom.
  5. Scroll down and click Release under DHCP Lease. Then hit apply changes.

Step 5 - Factory reset your Verizon Router

Your Fios router has various types of personal information saved on it – the name of your WiFi network, your WiFi network password info, the MAC addresses of each device that connected to the router, etc. You will want to blow that away before returning it to Verizon by factory resetting the router.

There are two ways to reset your router. The easiest is to press and hold the red Reset button on the back of your router for at least 3 seconds. The second way is in your router settings. Log into your router, as above, and go to Advanced > Save & Restore > Restore Options > Restore Factory Defaults and select “Out of Box settings” in the dropdown menu. Then click the Restore configuration button.

Verizon Fios router reset

Once the router has been successfully reset, the login page for the First Time Easy Setup Wizard will display. You can now remove the Ethernet cable from your router, unplug it and pack it up for return.

Step 6 – Connect and set up your new router

Take the Ethernet cable out of your Fios router and plug it into your new router’s Ethernet input jack (could be labeled input, WAN, or something else that should be specified in the setup instructions), then turn on your router. The router should automatically detect the incoming signal from your ONT box and continue with the setup process. The process will vary by manufacturer and model, and by whether you have a standalone router or a mesh WiFi system, though it should be very straightforward. If all is good, then you can take that old router back to Verizon.

Step 7 – Return your equipment to Verizon

Once you elect to go with your own router, you have 30 days to return your Fios router to Verizon, or they will charge you a rental fee. Make sure you return the power cord along with the router. And get a receipt from the store confirming that your equipment has been returned.

How did the process go for you? Let me know in the comments, and if you’re having any difficulties, we’ll see if we can help out. And if you’re having issues with getting decent WiFi in some areas of your home, read our tips for getting better WiFi and faster streaming.

[Image credit: Techlicious/Verizon]



Discussion loading

Verizon not unhooking IP?

From VintagebelleUK on November 11, 2020 :: 7:42 pm

Hi
Thanks for the great article. Closest I can find to something that may help but still can’t get my new router working.
Previous set up was a Verizon Fios router connecting via EThernet to my ONT port.
My new router is a Netgear c3700 combined modem and router. I followed all the steps above (apart from 2and 3 because it was already via Ethernet). Yet there’s still no internet light on my router.
When I phoned Verizon they first of all claimed that they wouldn’t be able to see whether my new router was successfully connected, only whether there own was online. They then had a lot of trouble and couldn’t seem to release their own router from the DHCP lease which I then went online myself to do it as per your instructions.
Transferred the Ethernet cable to new device port and still the internet light isn’t showing up.
Phoned Verizon and the tech person first claimed I need to ‘go online and accept the net gear terms and conditions’ which seems to be a fob off as it’s nowhere in the net gear instructions. And besides I can’t use the genie setup until the darn device is actually transmitting wifi!
Then she claimed it wasn’t working because it’s a combined modem and router. She claims it won’t work as a wifi router only because the ‘ont box’ also acts as a router. I think this too must be cobblers because when I google it says you can use the c3700 as just a router.
Is there a way of me checking whether Verizon have actually broken the DHCP lease? Could that be the problem still that they’re just not unhooking their device?!
Tearing my hair out after six hours so any help would be hugely appreciated. I refuse to give Verizon money to rent one of their devices but I just can’t seem to get this net gear one working!!!

Reply

The Netgear C7300 can't be used as a standalone router

From Josh Kirschner on November 11, 2020 :: 8:06 pm

The Netgear C7300 is a cable modem/router combo. The only incoming (WAN) connection is through the cable coax jack - there is no Ethernet input, so you cant use it as a standalone router with Fios. See: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Cable-Modems-Routers/Using-C3700-n600-as-router-to-connect-to-dsl-modem/td-p/1182787

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Speed difference

From Jason on November 16, 2020 :: 5:14 pm

I was able to get this to work like a charm on the first try and I was able to get ipv6 address on all devices, thank you for this post.

However, I’m using the latest Nest Wifi with a Fios Gigabit subscription and even when hard wired I’m getting a substantially lower upload speed (down around 200 Mbps vs 800+) with the direct to ONT setup. If I put the Fios gateway back in play speeds go back to normal. Any ideas? I scrolled the all the past posts rather quickly and didn’t see others mention this specifically.

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Possibly a firmware problem with Nest

From Josh Kirschner on November 16, 2020 :: 9:41 pm

There are numerous reports on the Nest support site with similar issues: https://support.google.com/googlenest/thread/46794052?hl=en. It seems like it may be related to the latest firmware version. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find any solution, and many people reported the problem went away when they swapped the Nest WiFi for Eero, strongly suggesting this is a Nest-specific issue.

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Thanks for the reply

From Jason on November 17, 2020 :: 1:35 am

Thanks for the quick reply. That wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest, haha. Google is easily bored by hardware.

I was originally falling victim to similar but not exactly the same issues before I tackled a running a wired backhaul as a COVID shut-in project. That definitely helped with me seeing slower wireless speeds in general. Once I had that up and running, removing the FIOS router felt like the next logical step.

Have you heard of anyone having any luck with the FIOS gateway in a bridged mode? If I can get that going I think I can have all the nice things with speed and ipv6.

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Can Orbi work through a FIOS WiFi Extender?

From Dan on November 20, 2020 :: 10:05 pm

Here is what I have now (FIOS internet-only service—no TV or phone):
1. FIOS ONT and Quantum Gateway Router (owned by Verizon) in basement.
2. Coax cable from basement to 3rd floor.
3. On 3rd floor, connected to the coax: Wifi Extender (owned by me).

This system works pretty well except on the second floor, where there are spots that are too weak.

So I bought an Orbi 3-piece system (the AC1200, has a main router plus two satellites). I tried to plug it in to the WiFi extender and do the installation steps but it did not work (main unit seemed to connect maybe, but it could not find the satellites).

So I started looking in to it and learned that (I think) I will have to use the Orbi in AP mode (not the default router mode).

By the way I don’t have ethernet cables run from the basement to the 3rd floor (or anywhere upstairs) so whatever my new solution is, I need to rely on the coax to get the signal to the 3rd floor.

Questions:

A. Can I get the Orbi system to work through the WiFi Extender in bridge mode (this would enable me to use Orbi in router mode, I believe)? Or is the only way to succeed to turn off “private wifi” for the Wifi extender and/or gateway?

B. Can you point me to a good set of step by step instructions?

C. Will any of this require calling Verizon support and getting them to change settings that I can’t change myself?

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I figured it out, here is what worked for me

From Dan on November 22, 2020 :: 1:54 pm

Just replying to my own post above, in case helpful to anyone in a similar situation. (By the way the WiFi Extender I have is an ActionTec model WCD6200Q, and the Verizon router/gateway is the model G1100.)

The answers to my questions:

A. No, I cannot use bridge mode with my Verizon router/gateway (nor my extender, which itself doesn’t do bridge mode anyway), because this is not supported by FIOS for the Orbi hardware. But…  yes, the only way to succeed is turn WiFi of the Verizon router/gateway off.

B. The Netgear support website for their Orbi product does not mention WiFi extenders anywhere, but it does include a lot of step by step instructions (although they are a bit disorganized). Eventually I was able to understand that the steps I needed to try were there, on two different posts.

C. I got it to work without having to call Verizon.

To summarize what I did, first off I had to ignore the Orbi app because with Fios the Orbi must be in AP mode and the app doesn’t address that. Also, when the instructions referred to the Verizon router/gateway I treated them as if they referred to my Wifi Extender.

I restarted the Verizon router/gateway. I reset to factory defaults all three Orbi units.

Next I used the Verizon website (can also use My Fios app on smartphone) to turn WiFi of the Verizon router/gateway off. This is explained here: https://kb.netgear.com/23734/How-do-I-set-up-my-NETGEAR-or-Orbi-router-to-work-with-Verizon-Fios 

Then I followed the steps at https://kb.netgear.com/26748/How-do-I-install-my-NETGEAR-or-Orbi-router-after-I-ve-enabled-bridge-mode-or-turned-the-WiFi-off-on-my-ISP-gateway

The exact screens that I saw, when following those steps, did not correspond to what the instructions said would happen. But I guess the Orbi was able to understand that I wanted it to be in AP mode.

To test things out, before I later had read at the Netgear site that the Orbi app won’t work for AP mode, I tried using the Orbi app. This was interesting because although it gave a lot of strange messages, ultimately it did ask if I wanted to install new Orbi firmware and I said yes. So that was good, I was able to monitor the installation of the new firmware using the app. But after that I realized the app doesn’t work with AP mode so I just deleted it.

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Fios Internet Only in Apartment

From Steve on November 22, 2020 :: 11:27 am

Hi,

Thank you for the information!

I’m switching from Spectrum (Internet, TV, Phone) to Fios Internet only, in an apartment.  With Spectrum, there is a coax cable that runs into the apartment and then to a router.

Would the coax cable be used for Fios as well?  I do know that Fios is an option for the cooperators.

If yes, then I suppose I would need a router with coax connection?  Are there any inexpensive ones to get besides a used G1100?

I have been using the Deco system which has been working well, but there is no coax connection with them.

Please advise,
Thanks so much!!

Reply

No, you would likely get new wiring.

From Josh Kirschner on November 27, 2020 :: 6:03 pm

The Optical Network Terminal (ONT) for Fios would likely be in your apartment. So you will have a fiber cable coming into your apartment, into the ONT, then an output from the ONT to your router, which would either be Ethernet or coax. If you want to use your own router, make sure they set it up for Ethernet, which they would likely do anyhow.

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Using your own router for FiOS internet AND TV

From CathyP on November 28, 2020 :: 3:46 am

Several people have asked about getting full FiOS TV functionality when using their own router. I found this article on the Verizon forums that says how to make it work, and the explanations seem pretty thorough: 
https://forums.verizon.com/t5/Fios-Internet/Using-your-own-router-with-Verizon-FiOS/td-p/851632

(Note that I have not tried this myself. I was only researching to figure out what mesh system I should get to work with my G1100 router, or do I need to get a G3100, in order to address a couple of WiFi dead zones in my house. I’m glad I found all this info before I attempted to switch anything.)

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Using your own router for FiOS internet AND TV

From Matt P. on November 28, 2020 :: 11:10 am

You may, like me, want to use FiOS TV while *getting rid* of the FiOS Gateway router. So far, I have not found any way to make this work if you’re using a FiOS set top box.
There is another solution, however: with a Verizon cable card in a device such as a TIVO, you can access the FiOS channel guide without a problem. It appears this is because TIVO supplies its own channel listing and program information.
I still have not found a way to make a Verizon set top box work properly without a FiOS router on the network somewhere. This appears to be a deliberate design decision on Verizon’s part.

Reply

Using your own router for FiOS internet

From Stew on November 30, 2020 :: 4:25 pm

Hi Josh - couple of quick questions, can I:

- Convert ONT to Enet with VZ
- Run Enet from ONT to central Enet in home
- Run Enet to Apple Airport Extreme and use as primary WiFi WAP?

Current set-up is coax to ONT and then to FIOS Router then Enet to Airport Extreme. Problem is bad signal in remote parts of the house so the objective is to move the AP Extreme to remote part of house. I’ve read multiple articles whether to make the FIOS router a pass though to AP Extreme (some say yes some say no). Just trying to also avoid buying a mesh if I can use the AP extreme. Thanks!

Reply

Lost the Fios TV guide

From nsm on December 02, 2020 :: 5:58 pm

Hi-
I bought a TP Link Deco Mesh system for my house which gives great Wifi to all corners of the house.  I hooked it up by connecting the ethernet line from the ONT into the Deco Mesh.  However, when I did that, I lost the on demand and channel guide for the Fios tv.  I still have cable tv but no longer have those functions which I think come from the coax cable.

How do I get those back? 
Thanks so much!

Reply

You have to use the Verizon router for those TV functions

From Josh Kirschner on December 03, 2020 :: 10:01 am

As I covered in the article and in many of the comments, you have to use the Verizon Gateway router if you are using Fios for TV or you will lose those functions. So the setup would be to run ethernet or coax from your ONT into the Verizon Gateway, then plug your TP Link mesh system into the Gateway. To avoid issues, you may have to turn off the Wi-Fi on the Gateway and use it in bridge mode.

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Getting RID OF the FiOS router

From Matt P. on December 03, 2020 :: 10:15 am

Josh, you may be starting to wish you hadn’t started this thread!

The poster above may, like me, not WANT the FiOS router in the system. If you have FiOS TV, as has been noted repeatedly here, FiOS set top boxes won’t work properly without the FiOS router in the system.

There is another solution to getting rid of the FiOS router, however, and it’s the one I’ve settled on. TIVO boxes (with FiOS cable cards) provide full channel guide functionality. This is because their channel lineup and program information comes from TIVO rather than from Verizon.

If you have one TIVO box with a Verizon cable card, you can extend this functionality to TVs in other rooms using a TIVO Mini. You only need the one TIVO Edge box and one Verizon cable card to be able to serve multiple TVs with a Mini for each.

Meantime you can use the router of your choice for internet, connected directly to the ethernet port on the ONT.

Reply

How about getting rid of TV?

From Josh Kirschner on December 03, 2020 :: 6:19 pm

Lol, I am grateful for these discussions with everyone providing their experiences with various Fios configurations. I’m not clear that the TiVo solution is easier (or cheaper) than keeping the Fios router, but if you really want that router gone…

Or, take the route I did and get rid of Fios TV (and phone) entirely. I’m saving over $150 per month, and I can get everything I want through streaming and my Sling subscription for local/basic “cable” channels.

Does The Router Require The Verizon Username And Password?

From Mike on December 11, 2020 :: 10:38 pm

Hey there.

Excellent article - thank you for putting this together.

I have a question regarding setting up a Netgear router for FIOS.

Do you need to input the FIOS (Verizon) username and password into the Netgear Night Hawk router firmware for it to work? Or, will the router establish the internet connection automatically via plug and play - without the Verizon username and password?

I remember many years ago, you needed to insert your Verizon username and password into a private router for it to work with FIOS. However, I know that for Comcast the router does not require the Comcast username and password. I also realize that many years have passed since I’ve experimented with FIOS.

Thank you once again - and I value your feedback!

Cordially,

MD

Reply

What I did....

From Thor christensen on December 13, 2020 :: 7:35 am

Was simply to obtain the same model route.  Still had to get tech support involved and now I’m engaged in another project to install moca devices and use the coax infrastructure and have close to ethernet speeds throughout the house.

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GREAT Article!

From Vince Conway on January 03, 2021 :: 4:08 pm

This was an outstanding article.  Each step had all the detail needed.  Thanks for doing this!

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Will MoCa help me?

From Louis Kleiman on January 03, 2021 :: 10:34 pm

So If I am reading a bunch of this correctly, the Verizon Router provides services to the FiOS TV boxes that I can’t replace with a MoCa adapter hooking the Coax and Ethernet together?

Thanks for all of the healthy discussion here.

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MoCA adapter info

From CathyP on January 04, 2021 :: 12:34 am

The article I linked on 11/28, https://forums.verizon.com/t5/Fios-Internet/Using-your-own-router-with-Verizon-FiOS/td-p/851632, includes the following info regarding use of a MoCA adapter. Sounds like you lose some FiOS functions, but maybe not all of them:

“If you don’t want to pay the rental fee for the Verizon router, you can purchase a standalone MoCA adapter such as this Aciontec one: http://a.co/0AUXdWo (Or optionally, you can find some cheap used Verizon Aciontec routers on ebay).
Simply connect the Coax cable from your old Verizon router to the MoCA adapter, and then connect an ethernet cable between a LAN port on your router to the MoCA adapter’s ethernet port. Reboot the set top boxes after the MoCA adapter has been connected and ensure they function as intended.
Do note that a select few features such as remote DVR programming do not work when using your own router. Unfortunately, there is no way around this issue.”

(I didn’t go the MoCA adapter route, so I don’t have any more info about the functionality. But I’m guessing that the basic functions like the Guide will still work with this setup.)

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FiOS TV without a FiOS router

From Matt P. on January 04, 2021 :: 2:26 pm

The bottom line is that getting FiOS TV to work properly without a FiOS router in the system is a royal pain in the rear end. While there are various hacks that may (or may not) work for you, fiddling around with this is, for most people, nearly certain to consume a lot of time and produce a lot of frustration.
And neither Verizon nor the manufacturer of any third party router is likely to provide support to get this to work. Which is why you’re here, am I right?
So, *can* you use any router you want with FiOS? Absolutely, and it should plug and play just fine for internet service. But if you are also a user of FiOS TV, you should be aware of the problems you are likely to encounter.

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Another solution

From Bruce Bolduc on January 04, 2021 :: 3:22 pm

One other solution to consider is to purchase a router/modem on eBay which gets you away from the 12 monthly rental.
I ran an Ethernet cable to my basement office and connected a separate mesh router which actually has better coverage in my house than the the Fios router tbh

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Question re: Orbi & Verizon Router

From Jeremy on January 11, 2021 :: 4:38 pm

I keep reading “you have to have a Verizon router in the system”...so my question is, does it have to be the main gateway, or can it be somewhere else in the system, and have the Orbi be the main gateway?

The setup would look like this:

ONT—>Orbi—>FIOS router, connected over CAT5

The FIOS One boxes would also be connected to the network over CAT5.

I think it’s possible to turn off IP addressing on the Fios router so it would then just function as one device on the network.

Is this possible? Does this make sense?

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Re: Orbi and Verizon router

From Matt P. on January 11, 2021 :: 7:41 pm

@Jeremy:

I’ve tested that exact setup. It doesn’t get the Verizon set top box to work (at least it doesn’t for me). And even if it did, you have an extra box (the FiOS router) with associated power and network cables.

I’m sticking with my hypothesis: trying to get a Verizon set top box to work properly without using a FiOS router is unsupported (by anyone) and likely to lead to frustration. Though various hacks may be possible, I think the best solution for most people who use FiOS TV is:
1) Use Verizon’s mesh router, or;
2) If using a non-FiOS router, ditch the Verizon set top box in favor of a TIVO box.
(Option 3: get rid of FiOS TV).

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Process to bridge a Fios G3100.

From Steven Snelgrove on January 15, 2021 :: 10:58 pm

What is the process to bridge a Fios G3100?

Sonos products don’t work well with eero mesh, so need to bridge either the eero or the G3100 and I would like to do the latter to maintain eero functionally.

I haven’t been able find an article describing this process.

Thanks

Reply

Excellent Instructions-Very helpful

From VP on January 16, 2021 :: 2:40 pm

I was able to follow this instruction to replace the Fios router with my own router.  I was able to set up everything within 15 minutes.  Thank you very much for putting this instruction together, saved me lots of time.

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Installing Google Nest Mesh WiFi with Frontier FiOS Router

From Paul S. on January 30, 2021 :: 9:53 pm

I have Frontier FiOS TV and Internet service in a multistory home, using a Frontier G1100 router.  The WiFi signal from that router is good except for 3 or 4 spots in the house.  I added a TP-Link range extender which works reasonably well but am looking for a better solution.  I am looking into installing a Google Nest router with with 1 or 2 access points which I hope would improve the WiFi signal everywhere and do away with the need to change WiFi network connections on devices between the original network and the extender network, as currently is the case.

From the research I have done so far I understand I would have to keep the Frontier router in order to have full TV and DVR programming functionality.  Currently a coax cable from the ONT is plugged into the Frontier router and an ethernet cable from the ONT is plugged into the WAN port of the router.  Also, an ethernet cable is plugged into a LAN port on the router providing wired Internet access to all the rooms in the house that are hardwired with ethernet cable outlets.

To set up a new network with WiFi coming only from the Google Nest router, I am thinking I would leave the Frontier router connected to the ONT and to the LAN, turn off WiFi on the Frontier router, and connect the Frontier router to the Google Nest router with an ethernet cable.  Would this work?

I also read somewhere online in cases where people connected the Google Nest router’s WAN port to the ONT, connect the Nest router LAN port to the Frontier router LAN port, and then put the Frontier router into bridge mode.  This arrangement also allowed the use of the TV and DVR functions, except that the user would not be able to program the DVR remotely using the Frontier Mobile app.  I do use the mobile app.  Would my proposed setup preserve the remote management of the DVR?

Thanks in advance to whoever can help!

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CAN I USE THE SAME VERIZON ROUTER AND ADD A NEW ONE SINCE IT'S COMPLICATED FOR ME THE SWITCH FROM

From Fred on February 04, 2021 :: 11:54 am

HI CAN I USE A NEW WIFI ROUTER WITH THE EXISTING VERIZON ROUTER PROVIDED SINCE ITS COMPLICATED FOR ME THE SWITCH FROM COAX TO ETHERNET THAT IT DOES NOT HAVE ETHERNET TO CONNECT TO THE WHITE BOX ONT WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND THANKS MUCH AND THE COAX CABLE IS COMING FROM THE EXTERIOR OF MY HOME OR WHATS THE BEST SOLUTION IN MY CASE THE SPEED IS VERY POOR I CALLED VERIZON THEY TRIED TO UPSELL THEIR CRAP AGAIN THANKS
IF I RETURN THE ROUTER WILL THEY LOWER MY BILL SINCE THEY ARE CHARMING ME FOR THE RENTAL OF THIS ONT

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Yes, but that probably isn't the solution

From Josh Kirschner on February 06, 2021 :: 3:11 pm

Hi Fred,

Let me address your question using punctuation and lower case letters…

If your speed is slow at the router (Ethernet directly into the router, or even WiFi right next to the router), then the problem isn’t your router, but your service coming into your house. What level service are you paying for and what speeds do you get plugged directly into the router?

If it is just your WiFi that is slow, is it an issue everywhere or only when you’re at a distance from the router? If the issue is whole-home coverage, then your solution is a mesh system. The mesh system can plug into your existing Verizon router through bridge mode. Make sure you turn off the WiFi on your Verizon router when you do this so it doesn’t interfere with the mesh network.

If you are able to make the switch from coax to Ethernet, then you can just use the mesh system and return the Verizon router to avoid the rental fees. But this is only an option if you are not using it for Fios TV or phone.

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It kinda worked but not so well

From Matt Geo on February 09, 2021 :: 7:20 pm

So I had no idea Verizon had been charging me a rental fee for this router all these years and now with Covid, I am out of work and trying to trim down all bills.
I purchased a router…
TP Link AC1200 Archer 6 Router
Which I thought was compatible.
I called up Verizon, switched the line out of the ONT box from coax to Ethernet, followed your instructions exactly and it all worked fine until it didn’t.
What I mean by that is I ran a Speed Test (Ookla) and my download speed, with the Verizon Router, was 87 Mbps
With the TP Link Router, the download speed is 9.46 Mbps
Uploads are the same and TP Link Customer Service is useless.
Sigh.

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ALSO

From Matt Geo on February 09, 2021 :: 7:27 pm

The speed test was done via a direct ethernet cable straight from the router to a 2020 Windows ASUS laptop.
If I am doing something wrong, please let me know.

BTW The article was excellent.

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Could be cable or router settings

From Josh Kirschner on February 10, 2021 :: 12:48 pm

This seems to be an issue for some folks with TP routers and it could be either a cable or settings issue. First, I would confirm that you are using a Cat5e or Cat6 Ethernet cable, as opposed to an older Cat5 cable. If the cable is good, try some of the suggestions for router settings in this TP Link forum discussions to see if that gives you an answer: https://community.tp-link.com/en/home/forum/topic/183010

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How did you make out the the ubiquiti dream machine pro

From James Tumminelli on February 24, 2021 :: 12:11 pm

I am using fios and just bought the ubiquiti dream machine pro.  I use TiVo for set top boxes.  I know i need the coax for either FiOS boxes of TiVo box with the cable card.  Can you share your experience with this setup.  I am hoping to get the TiVo box to work i would just need connect the coax to an adapter directly on one port of the ubiquiti router or i can put the FiOS router into bridge mode and put it on one of the ports on the ubiquiti router. I want to connect the dream machine directly to the ONT.  The guide and everything for TiVo comes over ethernet but for some reason the tivo TV portion still needs that stupid coax to work. Any help or input before i start would be great.

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You probably need coax directly into Fios Gateway

From Josh Kirschner on February 24, 2021 :: 1:10 pm

Most people have had issues using adapters to get TV functions without the Fios Gateway being the main router. You can try both routes, but your best chance of success is to keep the Gateway as your main router and plug the Dream Machine in bridge mode into the Gateway using double NAT. The process should be similar to this one for Eero: https://support.eero.com/hc/en-us/articles/207987916-Setting-up-eero-with-Verizon-Fios

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Cable TV coaxial

From Joe Henderson on February 27, 2021 :: 11:57 am

A verizon/Fios tech support rep just told me that there is no way for my Fios cable box to fully function without a coaxial connection (adapter to ethernet won’t do it right) so my TP-link AX3000 router will be no good for getting Cable TV, the Guide, DVR, satellite box, etc. because that router has no coaxial connection. Is that right?
thanks

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Yes, that's right.

From Josh Kirschner on February 28, 2021 :: 3:01 pm

Yes, you need the Fios Gateway for those TV features. I believe it’s more than just the coax connection, though. My understanding is that the TV box is programmed to work in connection with the Fios Gateway - so if it isn’t there, the box isn’t going to work fully.

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FiOS Gateway

From Joe Henderson on February 28, 2021 :: 3:14 pm

24 hours later I have learned, yes you are indeed right. FiOS TV (at least the newest generation of the box) will not really work without the FiOS router, and now you and I know more than some of the reps on the phone working for FiOS because one in Billing and even one in Tech Support told me that it would!  thanks

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Dream machine, FIOS and TIVO working perfect.

From James Tumminelli on February 27, 2021 :: 12:43 pm

Ubiquiti Dream Machine,  Tivo, and fios working perfect together.
So I bought the UBDM pro and now what?  I have fios quantum router, netgear 16 port managed switch and UAP-AC pro from ubiquity that was running off of a controller on a windows 10 desktop.  My Fios ONT was already switched to ethernet.  I requested that when Fios switched my ONT to the 1gig speed.  So I did some reading and did the following.
1.  Added a 3.5 ssd Samsung 500gb drive into the dream machine.
2.  I plugged the wan port of my UBDM pro into an open port on my fios router.
3.  Connected a laptop or desktop to the lan port on the UBDM-pro.
4.  Powered on the dream machine setup my account and went thru the 7 step setup process.
5.  Changed the LAN ip address space to a /22 network.  This gives me around 1000 ip address. Not that anyone in their right mind at home would need 1000. The reason I did this is because I can.  LOL.  Honestly, I did it because I am a VDI architect\engineer and I do have a pretty nice home lab.
6.  I have my current controller on a windows desktop, I did a backup of the config to be imported into the Dream machine.  The file will look like this 6.0.45-20210225-0914.unf.
Please note that to move to a new controller with this method the new controller needs to be at the same or above versions of the old controller.  In my case my windows version was at 6.0.45 and the Dream machine out of the box was at 6.0.43.  So, I had to upgrade the Dream Machine before I could import the newer file.
To upgrade controller, follow these instructions.  Very easy to do.
https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/216655518-UniFi-UDM-UCK-How-to-Change-the-Controller-Version-Using-SSH-

7.  I then turned off the windows controller and the UAP-AC pro. 
8.  Went onto the fios router and released the ip address from the ONT and unplugged it and left it off for now. 
9.  Next went onto the dream machine and imported the config file 6.0.45-20210225-0914.unf
10.  I then plugged the Dream machine WAN port into the ethernet cable from the ONT and plugged ethernet cable from the UAP-AC pro into the UBDM and powered on the Dream machine.
11.  Once the dream machine was up I then turned on the UAP-AC pro and let it connect and show as connected in the UI on the dream machine.  Importing the config allow all of my devices to just reconnect to the UAP-AC pro.  The great thing about this method is you do not have to go around your house and reconnect every device.  If you are like me I have over 40 devices and services running in my house like sense, nest, YI camera, ring cameras, 2 nest thermostats, WII, playstation, 3 firesticks,  4 smart TV’s,  4 ipads, 6 phones, Horizon view,  RAP device for work etc,  You get the point.  To go around the house and reset all of this would take me days. LOL. 
12.  To get FIOS running on my Tivo I then plugged the FIOS router into a LAN port of the Dream machine using the wan port on the fios router.  The MoCA that is needed for TIVO and FIOS boxes is now satisfied.  I left dhcp turned on for the fios router.  Now I do not have OnDemand or phone ID with tivo anyway so I did not care about that.  Also, from my TiVo edge I have the ethernet enabled because all of my Tivo minis run on ethernet anyway.  The Tivo edge is on the UBDM network with the ethernet enabled and has the COAX as well.
I hope this helps anyone looking to do this.  Very easy if you have a little bit of ambition to put a really awesome piece of HW into your home network.

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How to use non verizon router without switching ONT?

From Dan on March 02, 2021 :: 3:38 am

Josh,

I am cutting the cord, getting rid of Fios TV and phone, and sticking with an internet only plan.

I plan to use an IPTV streaming service, and want to set up a VPN on the router as well. From what research I’ve done, setting up VPN on a Verizon router is difficult. So I would like to use a non Verizon router. Also their new G3100 is quite expensive.

My current router is the Actiontec and is connected via Coax from the wall. The ONT is on the outside of the house, however my basement is completely finished, so even if I were to have Verizon switch the ONT to ethernet, I will not be able to easily access or run new ethernet cable all the up to where the router location is.

So is this possibe?... Buy a MOCA adapter, connect the coax cable from the wall jack to the MOCA adapter coax input, then hook the MOCA adapator up to the new router via ethernet cable to supply it with the internet connection? Would that work?

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

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It's a little more complicated than that

From Josh Kirschner on March 02, 2021 :: 6:24 pm

There are two frequencies coming from the ONT for MOCA - one for WAN (internet) and one for LAN. The MOCA adapters aren’t typically set up to handle the WAN frequency, so you will run into issues. The better solution is to switch your ONT to Ethernet, attach a MOCA adapter to your ONT via Ethernet and output coax to your office through the existing cabling. Then get a second MOCA adapter in your office to convert the coax back to Ethernet and input that to your router.

ONT Ethernet > MOCA adapter > coax in house > MOCA adapter > router

You may also get faster bandwidth by switching your ONT to Ethernet since the Verizon coax maxed out at 100Mbps for older units (and maybe still does) and the Ethernet can support up to 1000Mbps.

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Re: It's a little more complicated than that

From Dan on March 03, 2021 :: 10:55 pm

Thank you! That is some extremly helpful information! I’ll see what I can do.

I did not know the coax may be maxed out at 100 Mpbs. So even if I were to sign up for 200 Mbps, and leave my connections the way they currently are, I would not be able to get the full upgraded speeds.

When I spoke with Verizon the other day, and told them I wanted to use a non verizon router, they did tell me that a technician would have to come to switch the ONT to ethernet, and it would be a $149 fee. However I did not agree to it right away because I read that this can just be done remotely. However now I realize, after your explanation about 100 Mbps coax max, why they were recommending changing the ONT and cabling.

I think I may need to go with the 2 MOCA adapter route like you said, otherwise I would need put some holes in the walls/ceiling and do some serious fishing. I wonder if Verizon would do the 2 MOCA adapter install for me, that you suggested?

Thank you again!

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The switch is done remotely

From Josh Kirschner on March 04, 2021 :: 1:21 am

The change from coax to Ethernet is done completely Verizon remotely. You should do this through tech support, not customer support. And they do it for free.

I don’t think Verizon would do the MOCA installation since it involves non-Verizon equipment. There may be a local computer shop that offers services to help with the install if you don’t feel comfortable doing it yourself.

Update on my fix

From Dan on April 05, 2021 :: 9:22 pm

I just wanted to share what ultimately was the fix for me. Maybe some other people can potentially use this option.

So I did not need to use the 2 MOCA adapators at all. I found out that phone line cable is often run using Cat5e. Since I was no longer using the phone line (POTS), I could simply convert this line for Ethernet use. Luckily there was a phone wall jack close by my coax wall jack. So I popped out my phone jack, and sure enough the cable used was Cat5e, which is already pre-run all the way back to the ONT box for the POTS line. So after a little research, all I had to do was: #1) Confirm that I had the correct phone line run at the ONT box that I was targeting. #2) Convert the POTS connection to Ethernet at the ONT box, by terminating the 8 wires into an RJ45 connector (phone lines only use 4 of the 8 wires in a Cat5e cable, ethernet uses all 8, but you must make sure you terminate them in same sequence a both ends…it may be A or B sequence, which is easy to lookup online). #3) Connect the newly converted Ethernet cable into the Ethernet port on the ONT box. #4) From the phone line jack in the house, convert that same Cat5e cable to an Ethernet wall jack (Home Depot had a cheap and simple kit to do this). Again, you have to make sure that the sequence of the 8 wires matches the other end, on the RJ45 at the ONT box. #5) Run an ethernet cable from the wall jack to your new router (I was lucky and had a short run, so I just tucked the cable under the baseboard, and you can’t see any cables smile. #6) Call Verizon and ask them to remotely switch your internet connection at the ONT box from Coax to Ethernet. Then Viola! You’re done! Give it a few minutes and if you did everything properly it works perfectly. (Make sure you release the DHCP lease in the settings of your old router, if you are using a new one).

A Verizon technician can easily help with this whole process if needed. I had confirmed with tech support that this conversion was possible, and was offered to have a Technician do the conversion, but I opted to do it myself. (They would have likely charged me for the very simple inside the house work…but they can probably do the POTS to Ethernet conversion for you at the ONT box, at no charge, since its outside, and on their end.

Does a non-Verizon router make sense for me?

From VilleGuy on March 02, 2021 :: 7:50 am

Great story, but I have two questions. (1) We have a Verizon package plan that includes Fios Internet 100/100, Custom TV, and Digital Voice (landline phone). Would buying a non-Fios router make sense for us? I am not a tech whiz and am concerned about how tricky the changeover would be, and whether it would mess up any of our current connections. (2) If #1 is not recommended, would purchasing the router that Fios offers for $299 make better sense? That would pay for itself in 2 years.

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What is the reason you want to replace the fios router

From James Tumminelli on March 02, 2021 :: 10:12 am

What is the reason to replace the fios router?  That will have an impact on the answer to your question.  The fios router is “OK”. It is not great.  In order to use the use cable with any box you do need to have a MoCA “coaxial cable” hooked up to your cable box. The method i described would work for Fios.  You could put any router in first and then just uplink you fios router with just the coax cable hooked up to it. In your case you would need to have the ONT switched to ethernet to use your own router.  it is the easiest way to go. There is a way to convert the coax to ethernet. I would ask why?  not practical.  Again the question is why do you want to remove the fios router?  I did it because i have ubiquiti UAP-AC pro.  I am not paying for the router but i did need to keep it as an uplink for the my tivo to work correctly.  So even though i put the Ubiquiti dream machine as first in line i needed the fios router in the mix to get the MoCA connection.  I will say my internet speed on my wifi have increased by a lot when i did that.  So answer the question why and how much will it cost me and will i lose anything by doing it.

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re: What is the reason you want to replace the fios router

From VilleGuy on March 02, 2021 :: 11:11 am

Thank you for your reply. The reason I am considering changing my router is to save money. If I can save $12 per month and not cause a technical problem or disturb the performance of any part of our network, that is appealing. If it’s not too difficult to change the router and if the new router won’t cause me any headaches, I would consider doing it.

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You need the Fios router for TV and phone

From Josh Kirschner on March 02, 2021 :: 6:29 pm

If you are keeping TV and phone, you will need to keep the Fios router or you will lose a number of the features. I haven’t heard of anyone successfully getting around that issue, and even trying to requires extra adapters and a fair amount of tech tweaking that makes the whole process not worth while.

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Using Personal Router with STB

From Brian in VA on March 05, 2021 :: 12:58 pm

Josh, really appreciate the information in this article. I plan to switch to using my own router for internet, but will be maintaining our HD STBs. Most of what I have found says I will need to purchase a MOCA device as well for each STB in order to get the programming guide and DVR controls. Will the FIOS ONT support both ethernet and COAX connections at the same time? Seems silly that I can’t get full STB features over ethernet.

Thanks in advance!
- Brian

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You won't use Ethernet and coax at the same time

From Josh Kirschner on March 05, 2021 :: 5:06 pm

You won’t use Ethernet and coax from the ONT, only the Ethernet. The set up would be Ethernet into your router, Ethernet output from router to MOCA adapter, coax from MOCA to STB. I don’t think you need a MOCA adapter for each box - one adapter plus a splitter might work.

That said, even with this setup, I’ve read that the STB needs to be activated with a Verizon router. If they’re already activated, you should be able to reboot them when attached to the new MOCA adapter and you’ll be good. But, if they need to be reactivated for any reason (firmware update?), you may not be able to do it without a Verizon router. Given that, along with the costs of the MOCA adapters and potential for issues, if you are keeping TV, you may be better off sticking with the Verizon router.

If you really want to save money on the router rental, consider dumping TV altogether, subscribe to Sling ($30 a month) for local and standard cable channels and go full streaming. That’s what my family does and I don’t miss those cable boxes one bit.

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